Oops?

[Terry Maxwell FIA]

Was driving towards Liverpool at 8pm tonight, 60 mph limit road and doing
just under that, say 55 mph.

I go through the lights just as they were going red - couldn't stop safely
on the amber in the very wet conditions without going into a dangerous skid.

Didn't see the expected G*TSO flash behind me, so can I assume that the
scamera never went off? It was dark at 8pm obviously and a scamera flash
would have been obvious in my rear view mirrors.

It was like a yellow GATSO (it may have been grey, hard to say in the dark),
pointing towards the rear of my car as I went past the lights straight over
the junction.

There were no speed camera markings on the road. It looked like a GATSO,
facing direction of travel, ie rear of car as I drove past.

I've seen similar looking scameras flash when people jump red lights.

It's on here ........

www.cheshire.police.uk/traffic_cameras.shtml

and it is this one:

A550 Welsh Rd Two Mills 60mph RED LIGHT

Now, based on this ... www.leconcepts.com/radar/Web%20Site/news/news7.htm

i.e. :-

"The state of the traffic signals is monitored and the loops are energised
when the red light is illuminated. If a vehicle crosses the stop line 0.9
sec after this sequence, the camera is triggered, taking two photographs.
One is taken immediately and one a second later to show the passage of the
vehicle through the signals. The date and time of the offence, together with
the time which elapses after the red light is illuminated, are recorded onto
the film."

Looks like I am OK, as definitely well within 0.9 seconds when I crossed the
line, more like 0.001 seconds!!

Any comments on this?

[Tony Sutton]

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
Looks like I am OK, as definitely well within 0.9 seconds when I crossed the
line, more like 0.001 seconds!!
Any comments on this?

You'll never know... the police could be greedy and wants money!

Hang on tight and wait for the post... if you didn't get anything, then you
got away.

Good luck.

[Doki]

Post by Tony Sutton

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
Looks like I am OK, as definitely well within 0.9 seconds when I crossed

the

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
line, more like 0.001 seconds!!
Any comments on this?

You'll never know... the police could be greedy and wants money!
Hang on tight and wait for the post... if you didn't get anything, then you
got away.

I reckon as it didn't seem to flash he'll have gotten away with it. You
notice Gatso flashes in the daytime, you'd need to be pretty blind to miss
them at night. IMO the time allowed for going through red lights (IYSWIM)
really ought to be published, could save the odd person from skidding into a
junction as the lights change rather than going through on amber.

[Charles Holder]

is " gotten" English ?

Post by Doki

Post by Tony Sutton

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
Looks like I am OK, as definitely well within 0.9 seconds when I crossed

the

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
line, more like 0.001 seconds!!
Any comments on this?

You'll never know... the police could be greedy and wants money!
Hang on tight and wait for the post... if you didn't get anything, then

you

Post by Tony Sutton
got away.

I reckon as it didn't seem to flash he'll have gotten away with it. You
notice Gatso flashes in the daytime, you'd need to be pretty blind to miss
them at night. IMO the time allowed for going through red lights (IYSWIM)
really ought to be published, could save the odd person from skidding into a
junction as the lights change rather than going through on amber.

[Doki]

Post by Charles Holder
is " gotten" English ?

Yes.

[Charles Holder]

gotten

(An alternative form of got, used in the USA (hehas gotten him a job) but
not now used in standard English except in certain expressions such as
ill-gotten gains. )

OK so you win.

you gotten the better of me ))


"

[Dave Plowman]

Post by Charles Holder
is " gotten" English ?

Yes.

It is, but means "beget, forget, ill"

Using it as the past tense of 'got' is a nasty US habit.

[Gareth A.]

Post by Doki

Post by Tony Sutton

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
Looks like I am OK, as definitely well within 0.9 seconds when I crossed

the

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
line, more like 0.001 seconds!!
Any comments on this?

You'll never know... the police could be greedy and wants money!
Hang on tight and wait for the post... if you didn't get anything, then

you

Post by Tony Sutton
got away.

I reckon as it didn't seem to flash he'll have gotten away with it. You
notice Gatso flashes in the daytime, you'd need to be pretty blind to miss
them at night. IMO the time allowed for going through red lights (IYSWIM)
really ought to be published, could save the odd person from skidding into a
junction as the lights change rather than going through on amber.

Erm, as far as I am aware there is very little defence for crossing on
red. I don't recall going through any red lights and have never had to
brake *dangerously* to avoid doing so - pretty harshly, occasionally
but even then I was probably approaching the juction a little quickly.

If the road was wet shouldn't the driver have been approaching the
junction slower, in anticipation of the lights changing?

The highway code spells it out pretty clearly - amber is not "green,
but hurry up as I'm going to change soon!"

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/signs01.shtml

Gareth

--
Gareth
'85 Chevy Camaro IROC-Z (305 V8)
'92 B&W Chevy Caprice 9C1 (350 V8)

[Doki]

Post by Gareth A.

Post by Doki

Post by Tony Sutton

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
Looks like I am OK, as definitely well within 0.9 seconds when I crossed

the

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
line, more like 0.001 seconds!!
Any comments on this?

You'll never know... the police could be greedy and wants money!
Hang on tight and wait for the post... if you didn't get anything, then

you

Post by Tony Sutton
got away.

I reckon as it didn't seem to flash he'll have gotten away with it. You
notice Gatso flashes in the daytime, you'd need to be pretty blind to miss
them at night. IMO the time allowed for going through red lights (IYSWIM)
really ought to be published, could save the odd person from skidding into a
junction as the lights change rather than going through on amber.

Erm, as far as I am aware there is very little defence for crossing on
red. I don't recall going through any red lights and have never had to
brake *dangerously* to avoid doing so - pretty harshly, occasionally
but even then I was probably approaching the juction a little quickly.
If the road was wet shouldn't the driver have been approaching the
junction slower, in anticipation of the lights changing?
The highway code spells it out pretty clearly - amber is not "green,
but hurry up as I'm going to change soon!"
http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/signs01.shtml

I don't advocate jumping red lights at all, just suggest that it's perhaps
not the best thing in the world to have cameras on lights with an unknown
amount of leeway. Your average just passed driver is shit scared of getting
points because of the 6 point limit for 2 years, and is liable to be pretty
bad at controlling the car as they slide towards the junction.

[Dark Star]

Post by Doki
I don't advocate jumping red lights at all, just suggest that it's perhaps
not the best thing in the world to have cameras on lights with an unknown
amount of leeway. Your average just passed driver is shit scared of getting
points because of the 6 point limit for 2 years, and is liable to be pretty
bad at controlling the car as they slide towards the junction.

Add on top the non ABS brakes car with the brakes slammed on and the minor
problem of braking distances going through the roof (probably along with any
insurance premiums depending on the situation and outcome).

HAND

[James]

Post by Doki
I don't advocate jumping red lights at all, just suggest that it's perhaps
not the best thing in the world to have cameras on lights with an unknown
amount of leeway. Your average just passed driver is shit scared of getting
points because of the 6 point limit for 2 years, and is liable to be pretty
bad at controlling the car as they slide towards the junction.

Personally I don't think that newly licensed drivers should be practising
late braking manoeuvres at red traffic lights.

The amber light is all the warning you need that a set of traffic lights is
going to change colour and gives you plenty of time to stop before the light
turns red. If you are too close to the lights to stop, it gives you plenty
of time to pass the lights before they turn red.
--
James

[Peter]

Post by Gareth A.

Post by Doki

Post by Tony Sutton

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
Looks like I am OK, as definitely well within 0.9 seconds when I crossed

the

Post by Doki

Post by Tony Sutton

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
line, more like 0.001 seconds!!
Any comments on this?

You'll never know... the police could be greedy and wants money!
Hang on tight and wait for the post... if you didn't get anything, then

you

Post by Doki

Post by Tony Sutton
got away.

I reckon as it didn't seem to flash he'll have gotten away with it. You
notice Gatso flashes in the daytime, you'd need to be pretty blind to miss
them at night. IMO the time allowed for going through red lights (IYSWIM)
really ought to be published, could save the odd person from skidding into a
junction as the lights change rather than going through on amber.

Erm, as far as I am aware there is very little defence for crossing on
red. I don't recall going through any red lights and have never had to
brake *dangerously* to avoid doing so - pretty harshly, occasionally
but even then I was probably approaching the juction a little quickly.
If the road was wet shouldn't the driver have been approaching the
junction slower, in anticipation of the lights changing?
The highway code spells it out pretty clearly - amber is not "green,
but hurry up as I'm going to change soon!"
http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/signs01.shtml
Gareth

So we're supposed to slow up for lights? I've never been sure about
whether we should slow up for them and nobody I've spoken to really
knows either. On my first driving test I went over a red and since I
passed I've been worried about red lights. I think I'm pretty good at
lights now but I only need to hesitate for about half a second to miss
the amber. I usually stop on amber quite early, I love it when the
person behind is going mad and telling their passenger that I could've
made it lol. Some drivers just don't have a clue about the highway
code!

[James]

Post by Doki

Post by Tony Sutton

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
Looks like I am OK, as definitely well within 0.9 seconds when I crossed

the

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
line, more like 0.001 seconds!!
Any comments on this?

You'll never know... the police could be greedy and wants money!
Hang on tight and wait for the post... if you didn't get anything, then

you

Post by Tony Sutton
got away.

I reckon as it didn't seem to flash he'll have gotten away with it. You
notice Gatso flashes in the daytime, you'd need to be pretty blind to miss
them at night. IMO the time allowed for going through red lights (IYSWIM)
really ought to be published, could save the odd person from skidding into a
junction as the lights change rather than going through on amber.

The published limit is 0 seconds, read your highway code.

Sometimes before a light turns red, I've noticed that an amber light comes
on. Has anybody else noticed the amber light too? I wonder what it is for.
--
James

[SteveH]

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
Was driving towards Liverpool at 8pm tonight, 60 mph limit road and doing
just under that, say 55 mph.
I go through the lights just as they were going red - couldn't stop safely
on the amber in the very wet conditions without going into a dangerous skid.

OK. Couple of things here.

1. You were going too fast for the conditions. The limit may be 60mph,
with you doing 55mph - but if you couldn't stop in time, then you were
going too fast.

2. The camera may have an IR flash, so you possibly wouldn't notice it.

Shut up, put up and pay the fine.

Sorry I can't be more positive. But that's life. It's a bitch.

[James]

Post by SteveH

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
Was driving towards Liverpool at 8pm tonight, 60 mph limit road and doing
just under that, say 55 mph.
I go through the lights just as they were going red - couldn't stop safely
on the amber in the very wet conditions without going into a dangerous skid.

OK. Couple of things here.
1. You were going too fast for the conditions. The limit may be 60mph,
with you doing 55mph - but if you couldn't stop in time, then you were
going too fast.

If the speed limit is 60 Mph the lights should be timed appropriately i.e.
lots of amber time.
--
James

[Andrewr At Work]

<SNIP>

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA

Post by SteveH

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
I go through the lights just as they were going red - couldn't stop

safely

Post by SteveH

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
on the amber in the very wet conditions without going into a dangerous

skid.

Post by SteveH
1. You were going too fast for the conditions. The limit may be 60mph,
with you doing 55mph - but if you couldn't stop in time, then you were
going too fast.

If the speed limit is 60 Mph the lights should be timed appropriately i.e.
lots of amber time.

If, however, the road is extremely wet then you should be travelling
more slowly, to allow for the increased stopping distance required.

It seems that the OP is either being conservative with their estimate of
their speed or has no idea how well their car can brake in wet
conditions.
--
AndrewR, D.Bot (Celeritas)
Kawasaki ZX-6R J1
BOTAFOT#2,ITJWTFO#6,UKRMRM#1/13a,MCT#1,DFV#2,SKoGA#0 (and KotL)
BotToS#5,SBS#25,IbW#34, TEAR#3 (and KotL), DS#5, Keeper of the TFSTR#
The speccy Geordie twat.

[Conor]

In article <bqkr8p$kfr$1$***@news.demon.co.uk>, ***@james.com
says...

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA

Post by SteveH

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
Was driving towards Liverpool at 8pm tonight, 60 mph limit road and

doing

Post by SteveH

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
just under that, say 55 mph.
I go through the lights just as they were going red - couldn't stop

safely

Post by SteveH

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
on the amber in the very wet conditions without going into a dangerous

skid.

Post by SteveH
OK. Couple of things here.
1. You were going too fast for the conditions. The limit may be 60mph,
with you doing 55mph - but if you couldn't stop in time, then you were
going too fast.

If the speed limit is 60 Mph the lights should be timed appropriately i.e.
lots of amber time.

AS you're so fond of reading your Highway Code, what does it say about
braking distances in the wet?

[James]

Post by Conor
says...

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA

Post by SteveH

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
Was driving towards Liverpool at 8pm tonight, 60 mph limit road and

doing

Post by SteveH

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
just under that, say 55 mph.
I go through the lights just as they were going red - couldn't stop

safely

Post by SteveH

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
on the amber in the very wet conditions without going into a dangerous

skid.

Post by SteveH
OK. Couple of things here.
1. You were going too fast for the conditions. The limit may be 60mph,
with you doing 55mph - but if you couldn't stop in time, then you were
going too fast.

If the speed limit is 60 Mph the lights should be timed appropriately i.e.
lots of amber time.

AS you're so fond of reading your Highway Code, what does it say about
braking distances in the wet?
--
Conor
Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him.

"In wet weather, stopping distances will be at least double those required
for stopping on dry roads."

Wet weather can not be used as an excuse for jumping red traffic lights. If
I were to drive too quickly for the road conditions it would be my fault and
not the fault of the traffic lights.

I have NEVER had to do anything approaching an emergency stop because of
traffic lights changing "unexpectedly", even in wet weather, icy weather or
conditions of poor visibility. I drive within my limits, within the limits
of my vehicle, within the limits of the road conditions and pay attention to
the road conditions around me. Traffic lights changing from green to red via
amber is a regular non-emergency occurence that has never caused me any
problems whatsoever.

If I drove through red traffic lights I would be man enough to admit that it
was my judgement that was at fault rathter than trying to say that it was
the traffic lights fault. I don't know how many drivers are stopped each day
by changing traffic lights without having to do emergency stop but I suspect
that it is well within the capabilities of the average licensed driver, it
is and has been (since before I passed my driving test) well within my
driving capabilities.
--
James

[Dave Plowman]

Post by Conor

Post by James
If the speed limit is 60 Mph the lights should be timed appropriately
i.e. lots of amber time.

AS you're so fond of reading your Highway Code, what does it say about
braking distances in the wet?

It says to reduce your speed in poor conditions. If you can't stop at a
set of traffic lights because the road is wet, what chance have you when
that artic pulls out?

[Dark Star]

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
Was driving towards Liverpool at 8pm tonight, 60 mph limit road and doing
just under that, say 55 mph.
I go through the lights just as they were going red - couldn't stop safely
on the amber in the very wet conditions without going into a dangerous skid.
Didn't see the expected G*TSO flash behind me, so can I assume that the
scamera never went off? It was dark at 8pm obviously and a scamera flash
would have been obvious in my rear view mirrors.
It was like a yellow GATSO (it may have been grey, hard to say in the dark),
pointing towards the rear of my car as I went past the lights straight over
the junction.
There were no speed camera markings on the road. It looked like a GATSO,
facing direction of travel, ie rear of car as I drove past.
I've seen similar looking scameras flash when people jump red lights.
It's on here ........
www.cheshire.police.uk/traffic_cameras.shtml
A550 Welsh Rd Two Mills 60mph RED LIGHT
Now, based on this ... www.leconcepts.com/radar/Web%20Site/news/news7.htm
i.e. :-
"The state of the traffic signals is monitored and the loops are energised
when the red light is illuminated. If a vehicle crosses the stop line 0.9
sec after this sequence, the camera is triggered, taking two photographs.
One is taken immediately and one a second later to show the passage of the
vehicle through the signals. The date and time of the offence, together with
the time which elapses after the red light is illuminated, are recorded onto
the film."
Looks like I am OK, as definitely well within 0.9 seconds when I crossed the
line, more like 0.001 seconds!!
Any comments on this?

It's not a Gatso IIRC but a SerCo - a Red-light camera. This grabs you going
through a red light for prosperity and penalty.

As it says there is a definite delay to stop those who CAN stop but won't
and those who cannot and can't.

HTH HAND

[Steve Firth]

Post by Dark Star
It's not a Gatso IIRC but a SerCo

Serco is the company that maintains (some) Gatso cameras. Serco is not a
make of camera. You may have seen the logo on the camera and been misled
into thinking that was the name of the camera type.

[Dark Star]

Post by Steve Firth

Post by Dark Star
It's not a Gatso IIRC but a SerCo

Serco is the company that maintains (some) Gatso cameras. Serco is not a
make of camera. You may have seen the logo on the camera and been misled
into thinking that was the name of the camera type.

Ooops.

Sorry about that.

[Pete M]

Terry Maxwell FIA made the world a better place for us by saying..

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
It's on here ........
www.cheshire.police.uk/traffic_cameras.shtml
A550 Welsh Rd Two Mills 60mph RED LIGHT
Now, based on this ...
www.leconcepts.com/radar/Web%20Site/news/news7.htm
i.e. :-
"The state of the traffic signals is monitored and the loops are
energised when the red light is illuminated. If a vehicle crosses the
stop line 0.9 sec after this sequence, the camera is triggered,
taking two photographs. One is taken immediately and one a second
later to show the passage of the vehicle through the signals. The
date and time of the offence, together with the time which elapses
after the red light is illuminated, are recorded onto the film."
Looks like I am OK, as definitely well within 0.9 seconds when I
crossed the line, more like 0.001 seconds!!
Any comments on this?

Yup, yer fucked.

Three things.

1. The A550 is well known for big expensive crashes, As is the A41. The A41
/ A550 junction has a camera for a reason. Have a look at the junction next
time you speed through it. It's covered in broken glass, bits of reg plate,
bits of motorcyclists, and other accident paraphernalia.

2. It's Cheshire, so arguing in court is bloody expensive. I argued a
speeding ticket over the Runcorn bridge, and it cost me 5 points and £160.

3. It's a traffic light camera. Anyone who sets one off deserves the points
and the fine. Unless you *have* to go through, i.e. to let Emergency
services through, you deserve the points. No matter how late the flash is.

[Terry Maxwell FIA]

Post by Pete M
Terry Maxwell FIA made the world a better place for us by saying..

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
It's on here ........
www.cheshire.police.uk/traffic_cameras.shtml
A550 Welsh Rd Two Mills 60mph RED LIGHT
Now, based on this ...
www.leconcepts.com/radar/Web%20Site/news/news7.htm
i.e. :-
"The state of the traffic signals is monitored and the loops are
energised when the red light is illuminated. If a vehicle crosses the
stop line 0.9 sec after this sequence, the camera is triggered,
taking two photographs. One is taken immediately and one a second
later to show the passage of the vehicle through the signals. The
date and time of the offence, together with the time which elapses
after the red light is illuminated, are recorded onto the film."
Looks like I am OK, as definitely well within 0.9 seconds when I
crossed the line, more like 0.001 seconds!!
Any comments on this?

Yup, yer fucked.
Three things.
1. The A550 is well known for big expensive crashes, As is the A41.
The A41 / A550 junction has a camera for a reason. Have a look at the
junction next time you speed through it. It's covered in broken
glass, bits of reg plate, bits of motorcyclists, and other accident
paraphernalia.
2. It's Cheshire, so arguing in court is bloody expensive. I argued a
speeding ticket over the Runcorn bridge, and it cost me 5 points and £160.
3. It's a traffic light camera. Anyone who sets one off deserves the
points and the fine. Unless you *have* to go through, i.e. to let
Emergency services through, you deserve the points. No matter how
late the flash is.

There was no flash though.

[Pete M]

Terry Maxwell FIA made the world a better place for us by saying..

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA

Post by Pete M
Terry Maxwell FIA made the world a better place for us by saying..

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
It's on here ........
www.cheshire.police.uk/traffic_cameras.shtml
A550 Welsh Rd Two Mills 60mph RED LIGHT
Now, based on this ...
www.leconcepts.com/radar/Web%20Site/news/news7.htm
i.e. :-
"The state of the traffic signals is monitored and the loops are
energised when the red light is illuminated. If a vehicle crosses
the stop line 0.9 sec after this sequence, the camera is triggered,
taking two photographs. One is taken immediately and one a second
later to show the passage of the vehicle through the signals. The
date and time of the offence, together with the time which elapses
after the red light is illuminated, are recorded onto the film."
Looks like I am OK, as definitely well within 0.9 seconds when I
crossed the line, more like 0.001 seconds!!
Any comments on this?

Yup, yer fucked.
Three things.
1. The A550 is well known for big expensive crashes, As is the A41.
The A41 / A550 junction has a camera for a reason. Have a look at the
junction next time you speed through it. It's covered in broken
glass, bits of reg plate, bits of motorcyclists, and other accident
paraphernalia.
2. It's Cheshire, so arguing in court is bloody expensive. I argued a
speeding ticket over the Runcorn bridge, and it cost me 5 points and £160.
3. It's a traffic light camera. Anyone who sets one off deserves the
points and the fine. Unless you *have* to go through, i.e. to let
Emergency services through, you deserve the points. No matter how
late the flash is.

There was no flash though.

You may just be a lucky, jammy bastard then.

[Conor]

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
Was driving towards Liverpool at 8pm tonight, 60 mph limit road and doing
just under that, say 55 mph.
I go through the lights just as they were going red - couldn't stop safely
on the amber in the very wet conditions without going into a dangerous skid.
Didn't see the expected G*TSO flash behind me, so can I assume that the
scamera never went off? It was dark at 8pm obviously and a scamera flash
would have been obvious in my rear view mirrors.
Any comments on this?

That'd be the "scamera" put there to catch the plethora of cunts like
you that run red lights and nearly get T-Boned on a daily basis?

[Steve Knight]

That'd be the "scamera" put there to catch the plethora of c*nts like
you that run red lights and nearly get T-Boned on a daily basis?

Obviously Conor you don't know the law.

Like me, you mistakenly believe the Highway Code when it says an amber light
means 'stop'.

In fact, as many drivers know (particularly here in London) amber means
'accelerate hard' and red only means 'stop' after it has been on for 3 or 4
seconds - until then you're allowed to go right through it.

I'm no big fan of speed cameras but I'd have a traffic light camera on every
junction.

[Lordy]

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
I go through the lights just as they were going red - couldn't stop
safely on the amber in the very wet conditions without going into a
dangerous skid.
Didn't see the expected G*TSO flash behind me, so can I assume that
the scamera never went off?

The sensors are not triggered the instant the lights turn to red,
there's a little delay. That, and the fact that there was no flash,
would rather unfortunately indicate that you got away with it.

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
There were no speed camera markings on the road

Because it's not a speed camera...

[Terry Maxwell FIA]

Post by Lordy

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
I go through the lights just as they were going red - couldn't stop
safely on the amber in the very wet conditions without going into a
dangerous skid.
Didn't see the expected G*TSO flash behind me, so can I assume that
the scamera never went off?

The sensors are not triggered the instant the lights turn to red,
there's a little delay. That, and the fact that there was no flash,
would rather unfortunately indicate that you got away with it.

Unhelpful opinion. Stopping would have been dangerous.

[cupra]

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA

Post by Lordy

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
I go through the lights just as they were going red - couldn't stop
safely on the amber in the very wet conditions without going into a
dangerous skid.
Didn't see the expected G*TSO flash behind me, so can I assume that
the scamera never went off?

The sensors are not triggered the instant the lights turn to red,
there's a little delay. That, and the fact that there was no flash,
would rather unfortunately indicate that you got away with it.

Unhelpful opinion. Stopping would have been dangerous.

The 'helpful' argument (that I was taught when I learned to drive) is that as you approach lights from a distance, and they stay green for a lengthy period, expect them to change in the immediate future and adjust speed appropriately. That way, it wouldn't be dangerous to stop when you see the amber.

[Terry Maxwell FIA]

Post by cupra

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA

Post by Lordy

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
I go through the lights just as they were going red - couldn't stop
safely on the amber in the very wet conditions without going into a
dangerous skid.
Didn't see the expected G*TSO flash behind me, so can I assume that
the scamera never went off?

The sensors are not triggered the instant the lights turn to red,
there's a little delay. That, and the fact that there was no flash,
would rather unfortunately indicate that you got away with it.

Unhelpful opinion. Stopping would have been dangerous.

The 'helpful' argument (that I was taught when I learned to drive) is
that as you approach lights from a distance, and they stay green for
a lengthy period, expect them to change in the immediate future and
adjust speed appropriately. That way, it wouldn't be dangerous to
stop when you see the amber.

They had changed to green five seconds earlier, so five seconds on green is
all I had. Pathetic for a main road.

Still, no flash so probably OK.

[Lordy]

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA

Post by Lordy

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
I go through the lights just as they were going red - couldn't stop
safely on the amber in the very wet conditions without going into a
dangerous skid.
Didn't see the expected G*TSO flash behind me, so can I assume that
the scamera never went off?

The sensors are not triggered the instant the lights turn to red,
there's a little delay. That, and the fact that there was no flash,
would rather unfortunately indicate that you got away with it.

Unhelpful opinion. Stopping would have been dangerous.

From the details provided in your post, stopping would only have been
dangerous because your driving was dangerous.

I answered your question and it's the answer you wanted to hear. If you
don't want people to have an opinion of your driving then it's probably
best not to jump on a public forum and tell them you drive through
junctions without due care.

Nearly all 60 limit roads around here have 30 limits at the area
surrounding the traffic lights btw. Can I assume that this road you
speak of is not such a place... ?

[Pete Smith]

Post by Lordy

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA

Post by Lordy

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
I go through the lights just as they were going red - couldn't stop
safely on the amber in the very wet conditions without going into a
dangerous skid.
Didn't see the expected G*TSO flash behind me, so can I assume that
the scamera never went off?

The sensors are not triggered the instant the lights turn to red,
there's a little delay. That, and the fact that there was no flash,
would rather unfortunately indicate that you got away with it.

Unhelpful opinion. Stopping would have been dangerous.

From the details provided in your post, stopping would only have been
dangerous because your driving was dangerous.
I answered your question and it's the answer you wanted to hear. If you
don't want people to have an opinion of your driving then it's probably
best not to jump on a public forum and tell them you drive through
junctions without due care.
Nearly all 60 limit roads around here have 30 limits at the area
surrounding the traffic lights btw. Can I assume that this road you
speak of is not such a place... ?

Well, the A41/A5032 (Whitby Way) north of Chester is not such a place.

Traffic lights on an NSL stretch.

If you time it _just_ right, you can slow down 60 feet or so from the
lights, down to walking pace, trigger the inductive loops, and then drive
through as the lights go green.

Pete.

[Dave Plowman]

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
Unhelpful opinion. Stopping would have been dangerous.

The amber period is set to allow you to stop from legal speeds even in
poor conditions. If it was unsafe to stop you were either going too fast
or missed the lights changing to amber.

[Doki]

Post by Dave Plowman

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
Unhelpful opinion. Stopping would have been dangerous.

The amber period is set to allow you to stop from legal speeds even in
poor conditions. If it was unsafe to stop you were either going too fast
or missed the lights changing to amber.

Pish. I've nearly locked a wheel stopping for some lights, it was wet, but
not soaking wet, in a 30 limit, doing 30.

[Clive George]

Post by Doki

Post by Dave Plowman
The amber period is set to allow you to stop from legal speeds even in
poor conditions. If it was unsafe to stop you were either going too fast
or missed the lights changing to amber.

Pish. I've nearly locked a wheel stopping for some lights, it was wet, but
not soaking wet, in a 30 limit, doing 30.

If it's a 30 limit is 30 a safe speed? Most people here can get this one
right - let's see if you can...

cheers,
clive

[Doki]

Post by Clive George

Post by Doki

Post by Dave Plowman
The amber period is set to allow you to stop from legal speeds even in
poor conditions. If it was unsafe to stop you were either going too fast
or missed the lights changing to amber.

Pish. I've nearly locked a wheel stopping for some lights, it was wet, but
not soaking wet, in a 30 limit, doing 30.

If it's a 30 limit is 30 a safe speed? Most people here can get this one
right - let's see if you can...

Yes, it was at the time, I was approaching a junction with nobody behind me,
very little traffic around and no pedestrians. Remember that 30 indicated is
around 27 or so actual mph. One would expect the traffic lights would be set
up with people approaching at 30 in mind.

[Clive George]

Post by Doki

Post by Clive George

Post by Doki

Post by Dave Plowman
The amber period is set to allow you to stop from legal speeds even

in

Post by Clive George

Post by Doki

Post by Dave Plowman
poor conditions. If it was unsafe to stop you were either going too

fast

Post by Clive George

Post by Doki

Post by Dave Plowman
or missed the lights changing to amber.

Pish. I've nearly locked a wheel stopping for some lights, it was wet,

but

Post by Clive George

Post by Doki
not soaking wet, in a 30 limit, doing 30.

If it's a 30 limit is 30 a safe speed? Most people here can get this one
right - let's see if you can...

Yes, it was at the time, I was approaching a junction with nobody behind me,
very little traffic around and no pedestrians. Remember that 30 indicated is
around 27 or so actual mph. One would expect the traffic lights would be set
up with people approaching at 30 in mind.

Do you still expect that, even though experience tells you otherwise? Have
you learnt from your mistake?

(told off a bmw driver this morning for going through a red light. he looked
behind him and said he hadn't seen it. <insert suitable expressions of
incredulity here> )

clive

[Doki]

Post by Clive George

Post by Doki

Post by Clive George

Post by Doki

Post by Dave Plowman
The amber period is set to allow you to stop from legal speeds even

in

Post by Clive George

Post by Doki

Post by Dave Plowman
poor conditions. If it was unsafe to stop you were either going too

fast

Post by Clive George

Post by Doki

Post by Dave Plowman
or missed the lights changing to amber.

Pish. I've nearly locked a wheel stopping for some lights, it was wet,

but

Post by Clive George

Post by Doki
not soaking wet, in a 30 limit, doing 30.

If it's a 30 limit is 30 a safe speed? Most people here can get this one
right - let's see if you can...

Yes, it was at the time, I was approaching a junction with nobody behind

me,

Post by Doki
very little traffic around and no pedestrians. Remember that 30

indicated

Post by Clive George
is

Post by Doki
around 27 or so actual mph. One would expect the traffic lights would be

set

Post by Doki
up with people approaching at 30 in mind.

Do you still expect that, even though experience tells you otherwise? Have
you learnt from your mistake?

TBH, I'd carry on and go through on amber now. If we go down the route of
"the lights could change at any time" we'd all be driving towards junctions
at 5mph. There has to be some sort of comprimise.

Post by Clive George
(told off a bmw driver this morning for going through a red light. he looked
behind him and said he hadn't seen it. <insert suitable expressions of
incredulity here> )

Where was it? It's not that difficult to miss lights that apply to you when
you're in cities that you're not used to with complex junctions.

[Clive George]

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA

Post by Clive George
(told off a bmw driver this morning for going through a red light. he

looked

Post by Clive George
behind him and said he hadn't seen it. <insert suitable expressions of
incredulity here> )

Where was it? It's not that difficult to miss lights that apply to you when
you're in cities that you're not used to with complex junctions.

(Only if you're a poor driver - I don't do that much driving in cities yet I
don't have a problem with missing lights.)

Ped Xing (with peds waiting to cross) in Hellifield, a village on the A65 in
Yorkshire. Nearest junction lights are 10 miles away in Skipton, nearest ped
xing lights are in Long Preston 2 miles away.

So it's not a city, not a complex junction, not a busy and confusing place
at all.

And the sky has just gone a lovely red/purple colour.

clive

[Doki]

Post by Clive George

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA

Post by Clive George
(told off a bmw driver this morning for going through a red light. he

looked

Post by Clive George
behind him and said he hadn't seen it. <insert suitable expressions of
incredulity here> )

Where was it? It's not that difficult to miss lights that apply to you

when

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
you're in cities that you're not used to with complex junctions.

(Only if you're a poor driver - I don't do that much driving in cities yet I
don't have a problem with missing lights.)

I wouldn't say I'm in the habit of it, but I've certainly done it when there
are traffic lights in unusual places and no other traffic around.

[Dave Plowman]

Post by Doki

Post by Dave Plowman
The amber period is set to allow you to stop from legal speeds even
in poor conditions. If it was unsafe to stop you were either going too
fast or missed the lights changing to amber.

Pish. I've nearly locked a wheel stopping for some lights, it was wet,
but not soaking wet, in a 30 limit, doing 30.

So that's the reason for everyone going through red lights?

Strange I've never had that problem, despite keeping well up to the speed
limit.

Of course, it's not unknown for the lights period to go wrong.

[Dan405]

Post by Dave Plowman

Post by Doki
Pish. I've nearly locked a wheel stopping for some lights, it was wet,
but not soaking wet, in a 30 limit, doing 30.

So that's the reason for everyone going through red lights?
Strange I've never had that problem, despite keeping well up to the speed
limit.
Of course, it's not unknown for the lights period to go wrong.

Yea, even when i had the Triumph Acclaim (which had absolutely shite tyres
and brakes), i never had that problem when travelling at the limit.

[Dave Plowman]

Post by Dan405

Post by Dave Plowman
Strange I've never had that problem, despite keeping well up to the
speed limit.
Of course, it's not unknown for the lights period to go wrong.

Yea, even when i had the Triumph Acclaim (which had absolutely shite
tyres and brakes), i never had that problem when travelling at the limit.

What's far more likely is not actually seeing the lights change from green
to amber when it happens, but sometime afterwards.

[Doki]

Post by Dave Plowman

Post by Doki

Post by Dave Plowman
The amber period is set to allow you to stop from legal speeds even
in poor conditions. If it was unsafe to stop you were either going too
fast or missed the lights changing to amber.

Pish. I've nearly locked a wheel stopping for some lights, it was wet,
but not soaking wet, in a 30 limit, doing 30.

So that's the reason for everyone going through red lights?

Of course not. I'm just saying that lights aren't always set so that someone
who starts braking on amber will be able to stop in time.

Post by Dave Plowman
Strange I've never had that problem, despite keeping well up to the speed
limit.
Of course, it's not unknown for the lights period to go wrong.

Indeed. The tyres on the car at the time were pretty awful too.

[James]

Post by Doki

Post by Dave Plowman

Post by Doki

Post by Dave Plowman
The amber period is set to allow you to stop from legal speeds even
in poor conditions. If it was unsafe to stop you were either going too
fast or missed the lights changing to amber.

Pish. I've nearly locked a wheel stopping for some lights, it was wet,
but not soaking wet, in a 30 limit, doing 30.

So that's the reason for everyone going through red lights?

Of course not. I'm just saying that lights aren't always set so that someone
who starts braking on amber will be able to stop in time.

They should be, there are various regulations covering this. If they aren't
safe, they need making safe.
--
James

[Conor]

In article <bql7u1$co5$1$***@news.demon.co.uk>, ***@james.com
says...

Post by Doki

Post by Doki
Of course not. I'm just saying that lights aren't always set so that

someone

Post by Doki
who starts braking on amber will be able to stop in time.

They should be, there are various regulations covering this. If they aren't
safe, they need making safe.

They certainly do. THey don't take into account the increased weights
of lorries over the years.

[Lordy]

Post by Conor
THey don't take into account the increased weights
of lorries over the years.

Thought the drivers had always been fatasses :)

[Conor]

Post by Lordy

Post by Conor
THey don't take into account the increased weights
of lorries over the years.

Thought the drivers had always been fatasses :)

Heh-heh..at my wedding my best man had this as part of his speech..

"Conor has been on a balanced diet for the last two years...a burger in
each hand."

[Dave Plowman]

Post by Doki

Post by Dave Plowman
So that's the reason for everyone going through red lights?

Of course not. I'm just saying that lights aren't always set so that
someone who starts braking on amber will be able to stop in time.

Then there's no real point in having an amber phase, if it's ok to go
through red. And plenty agree with you these days.

Post by Doki

Post by Dave Plowman
Strange I've never had that problem, despite keeping well up to the
speed limit.
Of course, it's not unknown for the lights period to go wrong.

Indeed. The tyres on the car at the time were pretty awful too.

So not only were you going too fast for the road conditions, but on poor
tyres? Don't suppose you were pissed as well? ;-)

[Doki]

Post by Dave Plowman

Post by Doki

Post by Dave Plowman
So that's the reason for everyone going through red lights?

Of course not. I'm just saying that lights aren't always set so that
someone who starts braking on amber will be able to stop in time.

Then there's no real point in having an amber phase, if it's ok to go
through red. And plenty agree with you these days.

I'm not saying going through is something that should be done, but that
sometimes it is better to go through on amber, than to brake very heavily to
stop for a red light. If people on the NG can't concede that then they need
their heads removing from their arses.

Post by Dave Plowman

Post by Doki

Post by Dave Plowman
Strange I've never had that problem, despite keeping well up to the
speed limit.
Of course, it's not unknown for the lights period to go wrong.

Indeed. The tyres on the car at the time were pretty awful too.

So not only were you going too fast for the road conditions, but on poor
tyres? Don't suppose you were pissed as well? ;-)

Yep, and I was explaining how to use apt to an elderly relative on the phone
at the same time :P. It was just the one set of lights though, and I only
ever went through them once, so I can't tell you if the timings were wrong
etc.

[James]

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA

Post by Lordy

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
I go through the lights just as they were going red - couldn't stop
safely on the amber in the very wet conditions without going into a
dangerous skid.
Didn't see the expected G*TSO flash behind me, so can I assume that
the scamera never went off?

The sensors are not triggered the instant the lights turn to red,
there's a little delay. That, and the fact that there was no flash,
would rather unfortunately indicate that you got away with it.

Unhelpful opinion. Stopping would have been dangerous.

Traffic lights have 3 colours, red (stop), amber (get ready to stop), and
green (go).

You get PLENTY of warning that the lights are about to change so there is no
excuse for passing a red light, other than the fact that you driving is not
up to the standard required to drive on British roads.
--
James

[Conor]

In article <bqkrfm$n7j$1$***@news.demon.co.uk>, ***@james.com
says...

Post by James
Traffic lights have 3 colours, red (stop), amber (get ready to stop), and
green (go).
You get PLENTY of warning that the lights are about to change so there is no
excuse for passing a red light, other than the fact that you driving is not
up to the standard required to drive on British roads.

You don't if you're driving a 44 tonne Artic at 50 MPH. The amber is no
way on long enough to allow you to brake safely.

[James]

Post by Conor
says...

Post by James
Traffic lights have 3 colours, red (stop), amber (get ready to stop), and
green (go).
You get PLENTY of warning that the lights are about to change so there is no
excuse for passing a red light, other than the fact that you driving is not
up to the standard required to drive on British roads.

You don't if you're driving a 44 tonne Artic at 50 MPH. The amber is no
way on long enough to allow you to brake safely.
--
Conor
Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him.

If you can't drive a 44 tonne articulated lorry safely you should not be
licensed to do so.

Can you justify driving through red-lights with no other excuse than "it was
difficult to stop in time"?
--
James

[Simon Barr]

Post by James
Can you justify driving through red-lights with no other excuse than "it was
difficult to stop in time"?
--
James

As much as I hate agreeing with Conor, this time I do. My driving instructor
taught me that if you don't think you can stop safely, then don't stop at all.

I have cut it fine at lights before for exactly this reason, in a car. I
should think that a loaded artic doesn't stop quickly, I know my 110
doesn't and that's only just over 2 tons not 40.

[James]

Post by Simon Barr

Post by James
Can you justify driving through red-lights with no other excuse than "it was
difficult to stop in time"?
--
James

As much as I hate agreeing with Conor, this time I do. My driving instructor
taught me that if you don't think you can stop safely, then don't stop at all.

I was taught something similar, "if you are too close to stop safely". I was
also taught to use my own judgement and to not run red lights. Sometimes it
is not possible to stop, not because the road is wet or you weren't watching
the traffic lights, but because you don't have enough distance to stop. In
such cases you have PLENTY of time to get through the lights before they
change to red.

The O/P was either not watching where he was driving, driving too quickly
for the conditions or trying to get through on amber when he knew he
shouldn't.

The amber light gives plenty of warning that the red light is coming, there
is no excuse for running red lights.
--
James

[Conor]

In article <bql8gk$d6p$1$***@news.demon.co.uk>, ***@james.com
says...

Post by James
The amber light gives plenty of warning that the red light is coming, there
is no excuse for running red lights.

When you've driven something 40 times the weight of the car you drive
with a load that can potentially kill you then please feel free to
comment.

In the HGV driving test there is no Emergency Stop. You are taught a
Controlled Stop and you can fail this part of the test if you stop too
quickly even though you've not locked the wheels. Now I wonder why that
is....

[Dave Plowman]

Post by Conor

Post by James
The amber light gives plenty of warning that the red light is coming,
there is no excuse for running red lights.

When you've driven something 40 times the weight of the car you drive
with a load that can potentially kill you then please feel free to
comment.

The comment is that if you can't stop in near the same distance as a car
travelling at the speed limit, then you're driving too fast.

Post by Conor
In the HGV driving test there is no Emergency Stop. You are taught a
Controlled Stop and you can fail this part of the test if you stop too
quickly even though you've not locked the wheels. Now I wonder why that
is....

So stopping at a red light is an emergency in your book?

[James]

Post by Conor
When you've driven something 40 times the weight of the car you drive
with a load that can potentially kill you then please feel free to
comment.

My vehicle is irrellevent, the fact that I can and do drive it safely and
within its and my capabilities is relevant.

The stopping ability of a fully laden truck may not be as good as those of a
car but that just means you have to drive more slowly to compensate.

Do you dispute the fact that you should be driving more slowly in a 44 tonne
vehicle than in a 1.25 tonne vehicle?

Do you think that the national speed limits should be the same for PSVs and
HGVs as they are for cars and other light vehicles?
--
James

[Conor]

In article <bqpo37$t0s$1$***@news.demon.co.uk>, ***@james.com
says...

Post by James

Post by Conor
When you've driven something 40 times the weight of the car you drive
with a load that can potentially kill you then please feel free to
comment.

My vehicle is irrellevent, the fact that I can and do drive it safely and
within its and my capabilities is relevant.

The vehicle weight IS relevent.

Post by James
The stopping ability of a fully laden truck may not be as good as those of a
car but that just means you have to drive more slowly to compensate.

We already do, you moan like fuck about it enough.

Post by James
Do you dispute the fact that you should be driving more slowly in a 44 tonne
vehicle than in a 1.25 tonne vehicle?

We already do, you moan like fuck about it enough.

Post by James
Do you think that the national speed limits should be the same for PSVs and
HGVs as they are for cars and other light vehicles?

Depends on the road.

[Lordy]

My driving instructor taught me that if you don't think you
can stop safely, then don't stop at all.

A good driving instructor would have taught you to treat junctions with
caution and respect so that you are ready for the lights changing, and
any other changes of circumstances that may occur.

Just because the light is on green and a person is in an M3 doesn't mean
they can "bomb through" it.

[Simon Barr]

Post by Lordy

My driving instructor taught me that if you don't think you
can stop safely, then don't stop at all.

A good driving instructor would have taught you to treat junctions with
caution and respect so that you are ready for the lights changing, and
any other changes of circumstances that may occur.

I've got plenty of caution and respect, I passed my bike test about ten years
before my car one. Even now I always look people in the eye when driving and
you can sense when someone is goiong to do something daft, especially at T
junctions. You know the sort, the ones who dither and then pull out at the
last moment, arrgghhh!!

Post by Lordy
Just because the light is on green and a person is in an M3 doesn't mean
they can "bomb through" it.

Did I say that?

[Lordy]

Post by Simon Barr

Post by Lordy

My driving instructor taught me that if you don't think you
can stop safely, then don't stop at all.

A good driving instructor would have taught you to treat junctions with
caution and respect so that you are ready for the lights changing, and
any other changes of circumstances that may occur.

I've got plenty of caution and respect, I passed my bike test about ten years
before my car one. Even now I always look people in the eye when driving and
you can sense when someone is goiong to do something daft, especially at T
junctions. You know the sort, the ones who dither and then pull out at the
last moment, arrgghhh!!

Post by Lordy
Just because the light is on green and a person is in an M3 doesn't mean
they can "bomb through" it.

Did I say that?

No, and I'm sure you're not a bad driver, you just choose your words
badly and, well, you know how Usenet is :)

[Conor]

In article <bql69h$b0v$1$***@news.demon.co.uk>, ***@james.com
says...

Post by James
If you can't drive a 44 tonne articulated lorry safely you should not be
licensed to do so.

So now I'm supposed to be able to see into the future?

Post by James
Can you justify driving through red-lights with no other excuse than "it was
difficult to stop in time"?

Yes in the case of a fully loaded artic. It would be more dangerous to
try and stop with some load types.

[Dave Plowman]

Post by Conor
Yes in the case of a fully loaded artic. It would be more dangerous to
try and stop with some load types.

Then you are driving too fast with an insecure load. No excuses.

[Ben Blaney]

Post by Dave Plowman

Post by Conor
Yes in the case of a fully loaded artic. It would be more dangerous to
try and stop with some load types.

Then you are driving too fast with an insecure load. No excuses.

Any suggestions how to secure a load of 20 tonnes of, say, grain, or
manure, or livestock?

[James]

Post by Ben Blaney

Post by Dave Plowman

Post by Conor
Yes in the case of a fully loaded artic. It would be more dangerous to
try and stop with some load types.

Then you are driving too fast with an insecure load. No excuses.

Any suggestions how to secure a load of 20 tonnes of, say, grain, or
manure, or livestock?

If you don't know how to secure the loads, don't drive them on public roads.
--
James

[Ben Blaney]

Post by James

Post by Ben Blaney

Post by Dave Plowman

Post by Conor
Yes in the case of a fully loaded artic. It would be more dangerous to
try and stop with some load types.

Then you are driving too fast with an insecure load. No excuses.

Any suggestions how to secure a load of 20 tonnes of, say, grain, or
manure, or livestock?

If you don't know how to secure the loads, don't drive them on public roads.

You didn't answer the point artfully hidden in my response to Dave.

[James]

Post by Ben Blaney
You didn't answer the point artfully hidden in my response to Dave.

I did, it is illegal to travel on public roads with an insecure load.
--
James

[Conor]

In article <bqq0pt$1ft$1$***@news.demon.co.uk>, ***@james.com
says...

Post by James

Post by Ben Blaney
You didn't answer the point artfully hidden in my response to Dave.

I did, it is illegal to travel on public roads with an insecure load.

No it isn't. THere are circumstances where you can.

[Dave Plowman]

Post by Ben Blaney

Post by Dave Plowman
Then you are driving too fast with an insecure load. No excuses.

Any suggestions how to secure a load of 20 tonnes of, say, grain, or
manure, or livestock?

Loose grain or manure would be transported in a rigid bodied truck, surely?

As regards animals, buses don't seem to find it necessary to routinely not
stop for red lights, and their passengers could sue if they were injured
by bad drivers...

[Ben Blaney]

Post by Dave Plowman

Post by Ben Blaney

Post by Dave Plowman
Then you are driving too fast with an insecure load. No excuses.

Any suggestions how to secure a load of 20 tonnes of, say, grain, or
manure, or livestock?

Loose grain or manure would be transported in a rigid bodied truck, surely?

You wouldn't describe the sides of a tipper as "rigid"?

Post by Dave Plowman
As regards animals, buses don't seem to find it necessary to routinely not
stop for red lights, and their passengers could sue if they were injured
by bad drivers...

You obviously know almost nothing about the topic. End of conversation.

[James]

Post by Ben Blaney

Post by Dave Plowman

Post by Ben Blaney

Post by Dave Plowman
Then you are driving too fast with an insecure load. No excuses.

Any suggestions how to secure a load of 20 tonnes of, say, grain, or
manure, or livestock?

Loose grain or manure would be transported in a rigid bodied truck, surely?

You wouldn't describe the sides of a tipper as "rigid"?

Post by Dave Plowman
As regards animals, buses don't seem to find it necessary to routinely not
stop for red lights, and their passengers could sue if they were injured
by bad drivers...

You obviously know almost nothing about the topic. End of conversation.

I travelled to school on buses for 14 years (20 miles per day). I travelled
to University on buses for another 3 years. Not once did a bus I was on have
to brake suddenly for traffic lights or go through a set of red lights. I
was never injured by a bus having to do an emergency stop either.

In what way does my 17 years of daily bus travel not qualify me to comment
on the matter?
--
James

[Dave Plowman]

Post by James
I travelled to school on buses for 14 years (20 miles per day). I
travelled to University on buses for another 3 years. Not once did a bus
I was on have to brake suddenly for traffic lights or go through a set
of red lights. I was never injured by a bus having to do an emergency
stop either.

Absolutely. And a bus by nature has a pretty unsecure load in the form of
passengers, unless it's a coach with seat belts.

[Pete Smith]

Post by James

Post by Ben Blaney

Post by Dave Plowman
As regards animals, buses don't seem to find it necessary to routinely

not

Post by Ben Blaney

Post by Dave Plowman
stop for red lights, and their passengers could sue if they were injured
by bad drivers...

You obviously know almost nothing about the topic. End of conversation.

I travelled to school on buses for 14 years (20 miles per day). I travelled
to University on buses for another 3 years. Not once did a bus I was on have
to brake suddenly for traffic lights or go through a set of red lights. I
was never injured by a bus having to do an emergency stop either.

You're lucky then.

In the past year, I've been on the local park & ride half a dozen times.
Every single journey, the bus has run a red light.

However, not because it was going to fast to stop, just because the driver
is an idiot.

Pete.

[Dave Plowman]

Post by Ben Blaney

Post by Dave Plowman
Loose grain or manure would be transported in a rigid bodied truck, surely?

You wouldn't describe the sides of a tipper as "rigid"?

Depends on the design I suppose. But should be rigid enough to prevent the
load shifting under braking. If the load moves under these conditions it
should be in some form of container.

Post by Ben Blaney

Post by Dave Plowman
As regards animals, buses don't seem to find it necessary to routinely
not stop for red lights, and their passengers could sue if they were
injured by bad drivers...

You obviously know almost nothing about the topic. End of conversation.

If you are representative of truck drivers, god help us.

[Ben Blaney]

Post by Dave Plowman

Post by Ben Blaney

Post by Dave Plowman
Loose grain or manure would be transported in a rigid bodied truck, surely?

You wouldn't describe the sides of a tipper as "rigid"?

Depends on the design I suppose. But should be rigid enough to prevent the
load shifting under braking.

You think the *sides* of a tipper body will stop *grain* shifting under
braking?

Do you want a few minutes to think about that?

Post by Dave Plowman

Post by Ben Blaney
You obviously know almost nothing about the topic. End of conversation.

If you are representative of truck drivers, god help us.

I'm not a truck driver. I was.

[Dave Plowman]

Post by Ben Blaney

Post by Dave Plowman

Post by Ben Blaney
You wouldn't describe the sides of a tipper as "rigid"?

Depends on the design I suppose. But should be rigid enough to prevent
the load shifting under braking.

You think the *sides* of a tipper body will stop *grain* shifting under
braking?
Do you want a few minutes to think about that?

I did. You snipped the relevant part. I'll put it back in.

* If the load moves under these conditions it should be in some form of
container.*

Post by Ben Blaney

Post by Dave Plowman

Post by Ben Blaney
You obviously know almost nothing about the topic. End of
conversation.

If you are representative of truck drivers, god help us.

I'm not a truck driver. I was.

And presumably got sacked for driving too fast with an un-secure load?

[Conor]

Post by Dave Plowman

Post by Ben Blaney

Post by Dave Plowman
Loose grain or manure would be transported in a rigid bodied truck, surely?

You wouldn't describe the sides of a tipper as "rigid"?

Depends on the design I suppose. But should be rigid enough to prevent the
load shifting under braking. If the load moves under these conditions it
should be in some form of container.

It moves like a liquid. Now what I'm waiting in anticipation for is the
wonderful suggestion on how to solve this that'll come out bearing in
mind its a tipper and not a tanker.

[Dave Plowman]

Post by Conor

Post by Dave Plowman
Depends on the design I suppose. But should be rigid enough to prevent
the load shifting under braking. If the load moves under these
conditions it should be in some form of container.

It moves like a liquid. Now what I'm waiting in anticipation for is the
wonderful suggestion on how to solve this that'll come out bearing in
mind its a tipper and not a tanker.

I never mentioned tipper, but rigid *covered* tippers exist, don't they?

[Conor]

Post by Ben Blaney

Post by Dave Plowman

Post by Conor
Yes in the case of a fully loaded artic. It would be more dangerous to
try and stop with some load types.

Then you are driving too fast with an insecure load. No excuses.

Any suggestions how to secure a load of 20 tonnes of, say, grain, or
manure, or livestock?

I was thinking more of steel plate or 25,000 litres of fuel.

[Dave Plowman]

Post by Conor

Post by Ben Blaney

Post by Dave Plowman
Then you are driving too fast with an insecure load. No excuses.

Any suggestions how to secure a load of 20 tonnes of, say, grain, or
manure, or livestock?

I was thinking more of steel plate or 25,000 litres of fuel.

I'm rather lost as to why steel sheet can't be secured enough to not move
under heavy braking. And are you saying that fuel in a petrol tanker would
slosh out if you braked heavily?

[Budgie]

"Dave Plowman" <***@argonet.co.uk> wrote in message news:***@argonet.co.uk...
| I'm rather lost as to why steel sheet can't be secured enough to not move
| under heavy braking. And are you saying that fuel in a petrol tanker would
| slosh out if you braked heavily?

Worst loads I've seen were in gully suckers which have short but relatively
large diameter tanks on the back - high 'slosh' factor when braking.
However, these were fitted with internal baffles - surely petrol tankers
have these, not least for carrying the different grades of fuel.

Budgie


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.548 / Virus Database: 341 - Release Date: 05/12/2003

[Conor]

Post by Budgie
| I'm rather lost as to why steel sheet can't be secured enough to not move
| under heavy braking. And are you saying that fuel in a petrol tanker would
| slosh out if you braked heavily?
Worst loads I've seen were in gully suckers which have short but relatively
large diameter tanks on the back - high 'slosh' factor when braking.
However, these were fitted with internal baffles - surely petrol tankers
have these, not least for carrying the different grades of fuel.

Baffles only work to a certain point.

[Conor]

Post by Dave Plowman
I'm rather lost as to why steel sheet can't be secured enough to not move
under heavy braking.

Because a single plate can weigh over 22 tonnes. The only way to secure
it is with more steel, as in chains. The momentum can overcome these.

Post by Dave Plowman
And are you saying that fuel in a petrol tanker would
slosh out if you braked heavily?

No but if you engaged your brain you'd realise that the weight is
transferred forward which can cause the vehicle to jacknife.

[Dave Plowman]

Post by Conor

Post by Dave Plowman
I'm rather lost as to why steel sheet can't be secured enough to not
move under heavy braking.

Because a single plate can weigh over 22 tonnes. The only way to secure
it is with more steel, as in chains. The momentum can overcome these.

Then they aren't strong enough.

Post by Conor

Post by Dave Plowman
And are you saying that fuel in a petrol tanker would
slosh out if you braked heavily?

No but if you engaged your brain you'd realise that the weight is
transferred forward which can cause the vehicle to jacknife.

Who said anything about artics?

In any case, anti jackknife devices have been available for ages - or at
least the technology.

Seems to me that between you all you're doing is re-enforcing the belief
that the only safety many truck drivers care about is their own, and the
sooner these unsafe loads are taken off the public highway the better for
all.

[Conor]

Post by Dave Plowman

Post by Conor
Yes in the case of a fully loaded artic. It would be more dangerous to
try and stop with some load types.

Then you are driving too fast with an insecure load. No excuses.

THe load doesn't need to be insecure. It can remain in place on the
vehicle or can be in a container forming part of the trailer.

Go learn what jacknifing is.

[Trooper]

In article <bqkrfm$n7j$1$***@news.demon.co.uk>, ***@james.com
says...

Post by James

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA

Post by Lordy

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
I go through the lights just as they were going red - couldn't stop
safely on the amber in the very wet conditions without going into a
dangerous skid.
Didn't see the expected G*TSO flash behind me, so can I assume that
the scamera never went off?

The sensors are not triggered the instant the lights turn to red,
there's a little delay. That, and the fact that there was no flash,
would rather unfortunately indicate that you got away with it.

Unhelpful opinion. Stopping would have been dangerous.

Traffic lights have 3 colours, red (stop), amber (get ready to stop), and
green (go).

Red : stop
Amber : stop
Green : go

[Doki]

Post by Lordy

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
I go through the lights just as they were going red - couldn't stop
safely on the amber in the very wet conditions without going into a
dangerous skid.
Didn't see the expected G*TSO flash behind me, so can I assume that
the scamera never went off?

The sensors are not triggered the instant the lights turn to red,
there's a little delay. That, and the fact that there was no flash,
would rather unfortunately indicate that you got away with it.

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
There were no speed camera markings on the road

Because it's not a speed camera...

AFAIK the sensors on the road also record your speed as you pass over the
white line. I imagine this is so that people who've just stopped over the
line, been shunted by someone behind etc. can dispute the ticket.

[WD]

Some knob motorist waffled aloud about this.

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
Was driving towards Liverpool at 8pm tonight, 60 mph limit road
and doing just under that, say 55 mph.

I'm sure you believe that!
Couldn't have been because…

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
couldn't stop safely on the amber in the very wet conditions
without going into a dangerous skid.

TOO fast for the conditions then, or too busy looking in the garage
at cars way beyond your ability (and my price range) some very
to seriously good metalwork in there.

Note these lights have claimed many victims due to dicks like you.
Very frequent T - Boning, the road you crossed is also seriously
dangerous, known locally as 'Chester High Rd' - lots of deaths.

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
Didn't see the expected G*TSO flash behind me, so can I assume
that the scamera never went off? It was dark at 8pm obviously
and a scamera flash would have been obvious in my rear view mirrors.

Never seen it flash so you are probably lucky.

BUT

Since the knobhead recorder has been repositioned it may have gone
over to IR (is IR used on TL's?) I've not been through it in daylight
since so can't say if flash is magenta lensed or not.
Sadly Dicks like you seem to be unbelievably lucky as was the cross
traffic in this instance.

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
It was like a yellow GATSO (it may have been grey, hard to say in the
dark), pointing towards the rear of my car as I went past the lights
straight over the junction.

Bright Day-Glo Yellow visible for 1/4 mile at least, if you're going to
jump lights you should really only do it where no camera is sited, best
not to do it across a fast duel carriageway (twice the danger).

Hey how about just stopping like a proper driver would.

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
There were no speed camera markings on the road. It looked like a
GATSO, facing direction of travel, ie rear of car as I drove past.

Missed them as well - Oh deary me.

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
I've seen similar looking scameras flash when people jump red lights.

^^^^^^
Typo you meant Knobs

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
Any comments on this?

Learn to drive properly?
Working for an insurer surely you know the dangers better than most.

WD

[Terry Maxwell FIA]

Post by WD
Some knob motorist waffled aloud about this.

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
Was driving towards Liverpool at 8pm tonight, 60 mph limit road
and doing just under that, say 55 mph.

I'm sure you believe that!

Yes, I don't speed.

Post by WD
Couldn't have been because.

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
couldn't stop safely on the amber in the very wet conditions
without going into a dangerous skid.

The road was saturated.

Post by WD
TOO fast for the conditions then, or too busy looking in the garage
at cars way beyond your ability (and my price range) some very
to seriously good metalwork in there.

Honda? Hardly. I drive a BMW M3 Evolution with private plate R17 TJM. Far
better than any poxy old Honda thank you very much.

Post by WD
Note these lights have claimed many victims due to dicks like you.

Speak for yourself.

Post by WD
Very frequent T - Boning, the road you crossed is also seriously
dangerous, known locally as 'Chester High Rd' - lots of deaths.

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
Didn't see the expected G*TSO flash behind me, so can I assume
that the scamera never went off? It was dark at 8pm obviously
and a scamera flash would have been obvious in my rear view mirrors.

Never seen it flash so you are probably lucky.

Deserved, not,ucky.

Post by WD
BUT
Since the knobhead recorder has been repositioned it may have gone
over to IR (is IR used on TL's?) I've not been through it in daylight
since so can't say if flash is magenta lensed or not.
Sadly Dicks like you seem to be unbelievably lucky as was the cross
traffic in this instance.

The lights were red just as I went through. Probably JUST as I went through.
No cross traffic as their lights were still red.
My speed was comparable with the other cars going in the same direction.
Indeed, I was being overtaken. That's most unusual for me.

Post by WD

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
It was like a yellow GATSO (it may have been grey, hard to say in the
dark), pointing towards the rear of my car as I went past the lights
straight over the junction.

Bright Day-Glo Yellow visible for 1/4 mile at least, if you're going
to jump lights you should really only do it where no camera is sited,
best not to do it across a fast duel carriageway (twice the danger).
Hey how about just stopping like a proper driver would.

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
There were no speed camera markings on the road. It looked like a
GATSO, facing direction of travel, ie rear of car as I drove past.

Missed them as well - Oh deary me.

Well, could see no markings as road was saturated with water.

Post by WD

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
I've seen similar looking scameras flash when people jump red lights.

^^^^^^
Typo you meant Knobs

Scameras not a typo. Knobs to you too ;o)

Post by WD

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
Any comments on this?

Learn to drive properly?

Passed my test foirst time, and am a member of the IAM.

Post by WD
Working for an insurer surely you know the dangers better than most.
WD

How do you know I work for an insurer?

[SteveH]

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA

Post by WD
Some knob motorist waffled aloud about this.

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
Was driving towards Liverpool at 8pm tonight, 60 mph limit road
and doing just under that, say 55 mph.

I'm sure you believe that!

Yes, I don't speed.

Oh, here we go..... the 'I don't speed' brigade.

Have you heard of the term: 'Inappropriate Speed'?

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA

Post by WD
Couldn't have been because.

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
couldn't stop safely on the amber in the very wet conditions
without going into a dangerous skid.

The road was saturated.

So? All this says is that 55mph was _far_ too fast for the conditions.

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA

Post by WD
TOO fast for the conditions then, or too busy looking in the garage
at cars way beyond your ability (and my price range) some very
to seriously good metalwork in there.

Honda? Hardly. I drive a BMW M3 Evolution with private plate R17 TJM. Far
better than any poxy old Honda thank you very much.

Good for you. Feel good now? Get a kick out of that?

You sound like Mr. 'Consierdably Richer than You'.

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA

Post by WD
Note these lights have claimed many victims due to dicks like you.

Speak for yourself.

Well, WD does have a valid point. You were driving too fast for the
conditions. That makes you a dick in my book.

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA

Post by WD
Very frequent T - Boning, the road you crossed is also seriously
dangerous, known locally as 'Chester High Rd' - lots of deaths.

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
Didn't see the expected G*TSO flash behind me, so can I assume
that the scamera never went off? It was dark at 8pm obviously
and a scamera flash would have been obvious in my rear view mirrors.

Never seen it flash so you are probably lucky.

Deserved, not,ucky.

Post by WD
BUT
Since the knobhead recorder has been repositioned it may have gone
over to IR (is IR used on TL's?) I've not been through it in daylight
since so can't say if flash is magenta lensed or not.
Sadly Dicks like you seem to be unbelievably lucky as was the cross
traffic in this instance.

The lights were red just as I went through. Probably JUST as I went through.
No cross traffic as their lights were still red.
My speed was comparable with the other cars going in the same direction.
Indeed, I was being overtaken. That's most unusual for me.

Fancy yourself as a bit of a Nigel Mansell, then?

I think we're getting to the bottom of this......

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA

Post by WD

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
It was like a yellow GATSO (it may have been grey, hard to say in the
dark), pointing towards the rear of my car as I went past the lights
straight over the junction.

Bright Day-Glo Yellow visible for 1/4 mile at least, if you're going
to jump lights you should really only do it where no camera is sited,
best not to do it across a fast duel carriageway (twice the danger).
Hey how about just stopping like a proper driver would.

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
There were no speed camera markings on the road. It looked like a
GATSO, facing direction of travel, ie rear of car as I drove past.

Missed them as well - Oh deary me.

Well, could see no markings as road was saturated with water.

Hence you were driving _way_ too fast for the conditions.

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA

Post by WD

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
I've seen similar looking scameras flash when people jump red lights.

^^^^^^
Typo you meant Knobs

Scameras not a typo. Knobs to you too ;o)

Post by WD

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
Any comments on this?

Learn to drive properly?

Passed my test foirst time, and am a member of the IAM.

Hmmmmm. Why is it that IAM members almost always think they're god's
gift to driving? - even if they were going too fast for the conditions?

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA

Post by WD
Working for an insurer surely you know the dangers better than most.
WD

How do you know I work for an insurer?

He's your personal stalker, HTH.

[Dan405]

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA

Post by WD
TOO fast for the conditions then, or too busy looking in the garage
at cars way beyond your ability (and my price range) some very
to seriously good metalwork in there.

Honda? Hardly. I drive a BMW M3 Evolution with private plate R17 TJM. Far
better than any poxy old Honda thank you very much.

Aww - and i was SO nearly on your side. That fact you feel it necessary to
point out you have a private plate tells me you're probably an overpaid,
pompus, git :) And, by saying you drive an M3, you shot yourself in the
foot, as they have an EXCELLENT braking setup, ABS and the LOT, probably
with some excellent tyres on as well, so you could've easily stopped, unless
you were travelling at serious speed, or weren't concentrating, either way -
you'd deserve the ticket.

[Lordy]

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
Yes, I don't speed.
I was being overtaken. That's most unusual for me.

Hmmm, you don't speed yet you're rarely overtaken.
Oh, and it gets better;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/stoke/travel/tollroad/comments.shtml

"Terry Maxwell FIA
Can't wait to bomb along it in my BMW M3 Evolution R17 TJM.
I really can't wait! When's it opening again?"

You're making yourself look a bit of a prick btw.
Unfortunately your M3 shite appears to pan out tho (but far be it for me
to sterotype drivers and their chosen marque...);

R17 TJM
BMW M3 (96-01) EVOLUTION SALOON

[SteveH]

Post by Lordy

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
Yes, I don't speed.
I was being overtaken. That's most unusual for me.

Hmmm, you don't speed yet you're rarely overtaken.
Oh, and it gets better;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/stoke/travel/tollroad/comments.shtml
"Terry Maxwell FIA
Can't wait to bomb along it in my BMW M3 Evolution R17 TJM.
I really can't wait! When's it opening again?"
You're making yourself look a bit of a prick btw.
Unfortunately your M3 shite appears to pan out tho (but far be it for me
to sterotype drivers and their chosen marque...);
R17 TJM
BMW M3 (96-01) EVOLUTION SALOON

Just to point out... he paid _well_ over the odds for that plate. £700
FFS!

[James]

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
Was driving towards Liverpool at 8pm tonight, 60 mph limit road and doing
just under that, say 55 mph.
I go through the lights just as they were going red - couldn't stop safely
on the amber in the very wet conditions without going into a dangerous skid.
Didn't see the expected G*TSO flash behind me, so can I assume that the
scamera never went off? It was dark at 8pm obviously and a scamera flash
would have been obvious in my rear view mirrors.
It was like a yellow GATSO (it may have been grey, hard to say in the dark),
pointing towards the rear of my car as I went past the lights straight over
the junction.
There were no speed camera markings on the road. It looked like a GATSO,
facing direction of travel, ie rear of car as I drove past.
I've seen similar looking scameras flash when people jump red lights.
It's on here ........
www.cheshire.police.uk/traffic_cameras.shtml
A550 Welsh Rd Two Mills 60mph RED LIGHT
Now, based on this ... www.leconcepts.com/radar/Web%20Site/news/news7.htm
i.e. :-
"The state of the traffic signals is monitored and the loops are energised
when the red light is illuminated. If a vehicle crosses the stop line 0.9
sec after this sequence, the camera is triggered, taking two photographs.
One is taken immediately and one a second later to show the passage of the
vehicle through the signals. The date and time of the offence, together with
the time which elapses after the red light is illuminated, are recorded onto
the film."
Looks like I am OK, as definitely well within 0.9 seconds when I crossed the
line, more like 0.001 seconds!!
Any comments on this?

I think the offence is called "driving without due care and attention"
--
James

[WD]

I see you are still bleating on

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
How do you know I work for an insurer?

This is a fairly big clue...

***@royal-liver.com

Way too late to hide behind that feeble addy now,
the Royal won't be best impressed with such
ineptitude in bringing its once great name in to
so much disrepute.

Please excuse my snipping I'm a bit of a beginner
at this, methinks I'm not the only one :-)

In summary we have this guy who blew through a Red
Light in poor road conditions and wanted reassurance
his self confessed stupidity was OK, as he hadn't
managed to observe the aforementioned traffic lights
(or the Day-Glo camera) from 1/4 mile.

read on...

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
Yes, I don't speed.
The road was saturated.

WD replied wearily

But couldn't stop ? Smacks of eyes shut or don't give a ...
Or you must drive a bag of pooh then.

WD had previously commented thus to evoke the above witty
reply (oh sorry that's another post)

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
TOO fast for the conditions then, or too busy looking in the
garage at cars way beyond your ability (and my price range)
some very to seriously good metalwork in there.

Honda? Hardly. I drive a BMW M3 Evolution with private plate
R17 TJM.

WD continued realising this may be an uphill battle

Not just Honda (is a Honda dealer though) so we've established
you can see the dealer logo that is in foot high letters ( +
lit! ),
(But not camera or anything important like the TLights though).

A repmobile - an R reg, I suppose that could explain the poor
brakes if it's very old and poorly maintained.

Far better than any poxy old Honda thank you very much.

WD sighed and typed

Honda are more reliable and not as common as beemers.

My speed was comparable with the other cars going in the same
direction.
Indeed, I was being overtaken.

WD replied in quiet amazement

OK, several more knobs about, was it a knobheads cruise that you
couldn't keep up with then? and is it OK to jump light just
because others do it?

Indeed, I was being overtaken.
That's most unusual for me.

WD thought

Oh that's OK then - Not

That's most unusual for me.

What?
Driving like a knob, or being slow but still running red lights -
I mean if you are so quick you'd be across the light before it got
to amber surely?

Scameras not a typo. Knobs to you too ;o)

WD replied reasonably

Scamera I consider a legitimate term for revenue raising 'speed
camera' of whatever flavour (Gatso or Truvelo) not DICKHEAD
recorders. Oh a smiley of sorts - I luv you too.

WD had previously said to 'any comments? about R17 TMJ driving
like a knob BMW driver (my take on facts) this stunning reply:-

Post by Terry Maxwell FIA
Learn to drive properly?

Passed my test foirst time, and am a member of the IAM.

WD replied in barely concealed mirth

Idiot Amateur Maniacs label is something to aspire to...

WD added in jest (honest RayK)

IAM are usually selfish sons of bitches who try to steal
others safety zone - all in the name of progress though.


WD

What's the difference between ***@royal-liver.com
and a chimneyless chicken
.
.
.

well one is a flueless clucker.


PS If the Two Mills cam and the gatso up by the Woodhey Hotel
are both magenta flashers, you could be walking from Deeside
to Liverpool soon, the roads will be slightly safer.

[Pete Smith]

Post by WD
PS If the Two Mills cam and the gatso up by the Woodhey Hotel
are both magenta flashers, you could be walking from Deeside
to Liverpool soon, the roads will be slightly safer.

Don't know about Two Mills, but the one by the Woodhey is a standard GATSO
(or at least was, last time I looked).

That bit of road richly deserves its GATSO, and a lower speed limit IMO.

Turning right out of Berwick road is a bloody nightmare, because the A550 is
a lovely long straight bit, and people give it all they can before they get
to the A41.

IIRC, turning right off the Welsh Road into Berwick road is a bit "taking
your life into your own hands", because while you're stopped, you run a
serious risk of being rear-ended by someone driving at an inappropriate
speed.

Pete.

[WD]

Hi Pete

Post by Pete Smith
Don't know about Two Mills, but the one by the Woodhey is a standard GATSO
(or at least was, last time I looked).

Yep still standard, complete with stealth marking since they repaired
the road (repaired is a loose term, filled in trench badly is nearer!).

Post by Pete Smith
That bit of road richly deserves its GATSO, and a lower speed limit IMO.
Turning right out of Berwick road is a bloody nightmare, because the A550 is
a lovely long straight bit, and people give it all they can before they get
to the A41.

But why do they seem to be incapable of assing it at the
posted speed rather than panic braking to 35-40mph, it
seems that Terry Maxwell FIA F**ing Inattentive A**hole
(I think that what it means, sort of case proven really)
isn't the only dangerous motorist out there.

Post by Pete Smith
IIRC, turning right off the Welsh Road into Berwick road is a bit "taking
your life into your own hands", because while you're stopped, you run a
serious risk of being rear-ended by someone driving at an inappropriate
speed.

In that situation I tap my brake pedal in the hope that they might
spot flashing red better than flashing amber! I also try to keep the
steering straight ahead so if I'm shunted from behind I don't collect
something travelling fast towards me - I seem to think I got this from
the Florida Highway Code way too many years ago.

WD

[Pete Smith]

Post by WD
Hi Pete

Post by Pete Smith
Don't know about Two Mills, but the one by the Woodhey is a standard GATSO
(or at least was, last time I looked).

Yep still standard, complete with stealth marking since they repaired
the road (repaired is a loose term, filled in trench badly is nearer!).

I'm not very familiar with that bit - I use the A41, because I'm never
coming along the Welsh Road any more, and the traffic's always hell around
there anyway, but we've got a lot of friends who live within a half of a
mile of that bit of road, and none of them use it because they feel it's so
dangerous.

Post by WD

Post by Pete Smith
IIRC, turning right off the Welsh Road into Berwick road is a bit "taking
your life into your own hands", because while you're stopped, you run a
serious risk of being rear-ended by someone driving at an inappropriate
speed.

In that situation I tap my brake pedal in the hope that they might
spot flashing red better than flashing amber! I also try to keep the
steering straight ahead so if I'm shunted from behind I don't collect
something travelling fast towards me - I seem to think I got this from
the Florida Highway Code way too many years ago.

IIRC, just before Berwick road, there's a slight rise. You get people caning
it along the A41, coming to the rise, which hides the road ahead. They're
then presented with a stationary car, and no distance to scrub off the
speed. That's the impression I've been given anyway.

Pete.